“Bitcoin is For Enemies, Friends, Everyone,” says Hodlonaut

Gagarin News: So first off, and I'm sure that this is what our readers want to know, especially since you've been in this space for a while, have we entered the new bull run?

Hodlonaut: I have an answer to this question that probably no one will be happy with, because my take on that is no one knows. We really don't know. And I don't think it's possible to predict the major bitcoin price movement. We could be, but this could also be just a take out, and we're heading for two more years of bear market. So I don't know. That's my biggest lesson. After being in bitcoin for nine years, you really can't predict these things.

Gagarin News: But you're a bitcoin maximalist, am I correct? 

Hodlonaut: Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

Gagarin News: What does that term mean to you?

Hodlonaut: I'm not too married to the term. But I guess it means that I don't see any value in other blockchains or other projects in this space, since I believe in decentralization. Real decentralization is crucial. And if you don't have that, then you just have basically a database that can be co-opted by anyone applying force to the system, either through governance or other ways.

Gagarin News: So you don't have a favorite altcoin, you're only into bitcoin?

Hodlonaut: Yeah, 100%.

Gagarin News: And are you a bitcoin maximalist by day or by night? Or do you have a daytime job, too?

Hodlonaut: I have a company with my fiance called Citadel21. We produce a bitcoin magazine about bitcoin culture, which we publish every second month on the 21st, and we have done so for three years. That is my occupation. But sadly, a lot of my time is spent with my legal situation with this guy, Craig Wright, who claims to be Satoshi Nakamoto, who has decided he wanted to make an example of me for calling out his claims. So I've been doing that for four years, too.

Gagarin News: That case is still on? I thought it was over. No? You won it?

Hodlonaut: Yeah. I mean, I won a lot of decisions. I won the actual case in Norway, but what Craig Wright does always, is just appeal, appeal, appeal. There will be a new trial in September in Norway, and he has also sued me in the United Kingdom, so I also have to deal with proceedings in England. 

Gagarin News: I thought that he kind of gave up on the whole idea because his latest tweet reads, “I have been angry for too long as I cared for external validation”. I thought that this is the end of this saga, but apparently it's just the beginning?

Hodlonaut: Yeah, it really is. I'm not the only one dealing with this. He has sued both Coinbase and Kraken for what he calls “misrepresenting bitcoin by selling bitcoin as BTC'', and he's also been suing the bitcoin developers. So he has tons of legal proceedings going, and they're all very toxic and very, I would say, ruthless and evil against the bitcoin ecosystem. Absolutely innocent people are dragged into this and have to deal with all the stress both time-wise and financially. 

Gagarin News: Do you think that he is delusional? Because this has been going on for a while and so many people called him out. So what's the point he's trying to make? I've been in space for a while, too, and I remember that he sued just about everyone, as you rightly noted.

Hodlonaut: First of all, he is funded by Calvin Ayre, who has very deep pockets. He's Antigua-based and is at least a self-proclaimed billionaire, so there are very deep pockets funding this. Craig Wright himself doesn't have any money. 

I guess what meets the eye, which is kind of like probably the reasoning behind this, is twofold. One side of it is that they have amassed this huge portfolio of patents in this company called Nchain. They have hundreds of patents. They are all bad faith patents, but they can be used for patent trolling. So, I think they intend to use these patents to try to attack different actors in the space. 

The other side of it is they have this plan of getting court orders for redistributing coins on a blockchain. I mean, they're already trying to do this on BSV, and I think they have gone pretty far in stating it as well that they want a court to reassign all of Satoshi's Bitcoin to Mr.Wright. Attacking bitcoin from the legal angle, which is absurd, of course, as having a court dictate what's going to happen on a censorship-resistant immutable blockchain is pretty ridiculous. But that seems to be actually what they're going for. 

Hodlonaut: I definitely expect to win again in Norway. They spend so much money, so they have the best law firm in Norway, basically. And in my trial in Norway, they had twelve lawyers present in the courtroom. I was represented by two lawyers. 

The thing is, they have pivoted a little bit. They're now claiming that I am a “cyberbully” and that Craig Wright has been the victim of cyberbullying and that I am this ruthless person who organized an attack on him, and that he has suffered all kinds of despair and his family. And, I mean, he even managed to press out or tried at least to cry in the courtroom because of how difficult it had been for him, because of my bullying, which is so absurd that it's hard to…. 

Gagarin News: Wasn’t there another hearing in the US. A while ago, maybe in 2018 or so, where he was also trying to cry. Is it his thing to cry in the courtroom?

Hodlonaut: It seems to be his thing to try to appeal to emotion, but he's very bad at it, so I think the judges see through that pretty easily. 

Gagarin News: We hope you’ll win. You actually touched a little bit upon this Citadel21 project that you have with your fiance. And from what I know, one of the covers was made by a Ukrainian, right? From Kharkiv.

Hodlonaut: Yes, that's correct. The cover is made by an American, but he used the art of a Ukrainian artist in his design. So it's basically a cooperation between those two artists.

Gagarin News: That's very cool, because Gagarin News originated from Kharkiv. And you're supporting Ukraine, I hope.

Hodlonaut: My fiance is Ukrainian. Her mother lives with us here in Norway now, since she had to escape from Ukraine. So I'm very close to the situation. I don't think I want to go political at all. I just hope the suffering ends as soon as possible. I think it's so terrible to see all the great young people dying in this war. So I'm just very saddened by the whole thing. And yeah, I support people. I hope Ukraine gets the peace it deserves very soon.

Gagarin News: About the Citadel21 project. Is it profitable?

Hodlonaut: No, unfortunately not. It's not profitable for us. So we decided to cap it at 21 issues, which means we will only release one more issue, actually. It's been like more of a project from the heart, I think, that we really wanted to have a big network in Bitcoin, and we wanted to put on display all the cool art and all the cool philosophy and thoughts that are in the Bitcoin space. So it's kind of sad to stop it. But I think we will use Citadel 21 for something else. After we stop releasing scenes, we may start making some cool merch. We will be in the space in some way, but we will not be releasing more magazines.

Hodlonaut: It must be due to my avatar. Right?

Hodlonaut: The story behind that is quite random, I would say. 

I first had a profile on Twitter that included my real name. The more I tweeted in this space, the more I realized I wanted to be pseudonymous. I didn't want my real identity out there. So I came up with this name, which was a combination of astronaut, we're Going to the Moon with Bitcoin and Hodl. And it ended up as Hodlonaut. 

And I got help from a person online. I randomly chose a pic from Google Images, and I found this cool cat with a helmet on. But after a couple of weeks, I realized I don't want to just have a picture I don't have the copyright to. And that doesn't mean that anyone can take it, basically. So I wanted to design my own avatar. So I got the help of someone online to design it for me. 

And that's basically how that avatar came to be and how I became the Space Cat, I guess. 

I do like cats. I love cats. And I think they have some aspects of their personality which is really cool. I mean, they're very independent. They will never just listen to what you say without wanting it themselves and stuff like that. And I guess that fits with my personality as well. I don't just follow what people say if I haven't verified it myself.

Hodlonaut: Yeah, but I do love dogs too. As a person, I guess I'm a cat person, but if I were to choose a pet, I would probably choose a dog. I love dogs and how loyal they are. Great.

Gagarin News: Doggies are the best. You actually talked a little bit about bitcoin philosophy, and here's something I wanted to ask you. Bitcoin started out partially as a political project as well, right underpinned by these anarchist motives. But now it's being slowly yet fully institutionalized. Don't you think that there's a certain contradiction here that you don't really institutionalize something that has a very different purpose?

Hodlonaut: Definitely there is a contradiction between institutionalizing bitcoin compared to what bitcoin was meant to be. But I think the only reasonable way to look at it is that bitcoin is just a protocol. Bitcoin doesn't care. Bitcoin is for everyone, and everyone can use bitcoin because the system is completely open. 

I’d say that people  who work hard to wrap bitcoin in the legacy system and make it just another tool in the World Economic Forum toolbooks, if that's what they're trying to do. Or people who try to strip bitcoin of some features, making everything KYC. All that stuff is very anti bitcoin, but bitcoin itself will always just be used by anyone who wants to use it in the way they want to use it. The rules will never change. 

Gagarin News: There has been a lot of FUD lately in this space due to the FTX's collapse, with some people claiming that Binance will follow suit. How do you feel about all this?

Hodlonaut: I think we got rid of a lot of problems like corruption. I also think if you look at the space one year ago it was like a house of cards because so much of the space was built on bad practices and toxic leverage and all kinds of backroom dealings. There was no honesty, I would say, towards customers or towards outside companies, which FTX and Celsius have made pretty clear. 

I don't know how much of that has been cleaned out, but I get the feeling quite a bit of it has been. And I do think that actors like Binance have gotten a very big reality check that certain practices need to stop because they’ll get caught with their pants down. Maybe the worst is over when it comes to the collapses. I'm not sure. But I do think it has kind of made the actors in the space a little more informed on what they can do and what they can't if they want to stay solvent.

Gagarin News: It's just the whole story with FTX…and isn't it just crazy that a company of that size and asset value used QuickBooks?

Hodlonaut: So many things to that FTX story that just boggles the mind. It looks like Sam and Carolyn were just sitting there shooting the shit and just deciding to move a couple of billion dollars from one entity to another and calling it something to get away with it. 

Sam was also the biggest donor to the Democratic Party. That's insane. And I think it's underreported and underdiscussed. And also the fact that right now he's walking around freely. He's tweeting and he's having business meetings because he got out on bail and there's not even the public who paid his bail. So that whole thing smells very bad. And I would personally not be surprised if the whole FTX thing was basically a government attack on the space, and that they wanted maximum pain and maximum chaos so that they could come in with regulation and also to discredit Bitcoin, I guess. 

Hodlonaut: At least they haven't gone in as hard as I would have expected them to. Personally, I don't have much nice things to say about the US administration or basically any state at this moment. I think what happened with COVID and the removal of liberties under that I think states and the system of elites we have right now are, I would call it, very discredited. The fact that Elon has opened up Twitter again. I think that was so important to get information out, to be able to discuss the real issues. But it would just be speculation why things have gone the way they have. I do think we have very serious attacks on Bitcoin from the regulatory side coming in the next few years. 

Hodlonaut: I think they're seeing more and more that bitcoin is an actual threat. And with El Salvador actually going that hard on bitcoin as a national currency, trying to build  their future based on that standard, that's a big threat to central banks and the current power structure. And I think they basically need to start demonizing both bitcoin and bitcoiners in the future. And we're seeing the start of it. I mean, I've heard it personally. How can you like Bitcoin? You're killing the planet. You're boiling the oceans. So, I think more and more of those narratives and attacks will come. Pretty sure.

Hodlonaut: Yeah. BSV is the one I hate the most because it's so personal to me, because they are the people who have made my life a struggle for many years now. 

I would also say that XRP is probably also high up on my shitcoin list. 

Hodlonaut: No.

Hodlonaut: Ripple is a company, you said it to yourself, they've done a good job marketing themselves, which I think… Bitcoin doesn't have a CEO, Bitcoin doesn't have a marketing department. It's just a decentralized protocol. Ripple is a company who makes a profit for their owners. It's absolutely as centralized as it can be. If you use the fiat narratives and the fiat world, Ripple could be a thing in the fiat world. 

If we don't want to move away from this system we are in right now, because as long as they are condoned by the authorities, maybe Ripple could serve some kind of function as some form of database to transfer value. Could be. But I would rather use an SQL or an Oracle database, a fully permission database, and we have had that technology since the 80s. For me, it's basically just piggybacking on Bitcoin and that's the take I have on any altcoin, unfortunately.

Hodlonaut: I think you don't get many more obvious securities than Ripple. And the fact that none of the founders are in jail, there have been no consequences, they're still able to run their project and it's still possible to exchange Ripple on exchanges. 

So, I don't think they have been stepped down on hard at all because it would be very easy to use, as you point out, I guess, the existing system to crack down on Ripple. I always say Bitcoin, not crypto, because for me, Bitcoin is all about sovereignty, separating money and state. It's very fundamental. 

It's not about some kind of use case within the fiat system to make a smart contract or something like that. That's cool. Secondary level use cases, which I think will be built in a layered way on Bitcoin. But the main thing here is to be able to own a very hard money that no states can take away from you because it's actually fully decentralized and you can’t call someone and threaten them and then this one stops running. 

Hodlonaut: I'm not too vocal. I don't find much value in shitting on things, so I'm not out there all the time shitting on Ripple. I mean, if people want to have Ripple, and that's fine by me, of course, I'm not a Communist telling people what to do, so go for it. But if you ask me, I'm always going to say that I think it's a shitcoin, and I don't see any value in it. 

Hodlonaut: I'm going to make sure that we wrap up the magazine, part of Citadel21, in a solid way. I'm a family man. I mean, if I could choose, I would love to spend all of my time with my family and my kids and enjoy life. So I'm definitely going to try to live a good life. 

I'll remain on Twitter. I think it's important for anyone with a voice in these times to speak up and try to inform. We are in a precarious time. Authoritarianism is definitely on the march, which is one of the reasons I'm so thankful for bitcoin, because I think it's a defense against that. So I'm going to keep spreading what I consider a signal on Twitter. I'm going to spend quality time with my family.

I'm going to try to finally defeat Craig Wright for good. 

Hodlonaut: Thank you.

Gagarin News: Just one final question because you touched upon authoritarian regimes. How come, in your opinion, bitcoin is also kind of appealing to them? Don't you think that they're kind of trying to make ши of it? 

Hodlonaut: Are you thinking of El Salvador’s Bukele?

Gagarin News: I would say that, for instance, for money laundering purposes. It is being used in Russia. And Iran is also using it to circumvent sanctions, finding a way to use it in one way or another. How do you feel about that? 

Hodlonaut: I think bitcoin is for enemies, bitcoin is for friends, bitcoin is for everyone. Money in itself is not good or bad. It can be used for good and it can be used for bad, but it is a tool. And I'm sure you can sit down and find ways bitcoin can be used for bad. When it comes to the money laundering side. I mean, at least Norwegian financial crime units, they are very happy with bitcoin because they find it much easier to catch criminals who use blockchain than people who use cash in the old system. And they have gone public with that, that they don't have an issue with bitcoin from the criminal standpoint. 

I'm just so happy that we have bitcoin. And if some bad actors want to use bitcoin for their own bad purposes, I think that's just inevitable and very hard to get away from in the free society.

Gagarin News: Unfortunately. But we hope that we'll be able to reduce that kind of use case. But thank you so much. We're done for today.